Rewriting My Story: Faith, Identity, and the Power of Storytelling with Iris Quill

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Alright, welcome back.

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have my guest here with me.

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This is Iris Quill.

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She's the book witch and I am so excited to get to know her a little bit better and find
out what is this journey we came to becoming the book witch and how is it that you are so

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far away?

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And how did that come to be?

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I want to know a little bit about your history.

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So we kind of met each other online because we're both in a

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a faith journey group where people are sort of deconstructing and leaving their
traditional or, you know, the culture of faith of their upbringing.

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And so I am very curious to hear a little bit about your story.

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So where does that story begin?

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Yeah, I'm actually writing it out right now.

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A lot of it because I'm kind of trying to piece together all of the different steps of it.

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um I was a homeschool Mormon in Idaho.

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So it was kind of very, very sheltered.

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I kind of joke with a friend of mine that it's like the homeschool division of the Mormon
experience, the Mormon cult kind of a thing um because it is like,

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you get deeper and then you get deeper into different kinds of things because it's like
the more that you sacrifice and the more ah you give up certain things like the more holy

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you are and at least and in homeschooling it just gets more and more insular.

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I don't know how much experience you have with that or yeah.

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oh

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relate to what you're saying.

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Yeah.

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So I only left the church.

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I'm in my mid 30s and I only left the church about four years ago.

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I was yeah, yeah.

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I was in the middle of

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It's a really long story.

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I'm like, okay, I need like thinking of like all of like the different pieces, but I got
married um in December of 2019.

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And I was at the time I was working and living for a little micro school that was kind of
basically a commune.

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um And I was living in a little apartment off the side of the person who owned its house.

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Later, I like started tearing that apart and realizing that there were a lot of not
healthy patterns in that as well, Witch was super fun.

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But um

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I met my ex and got married very, quickly because I was 30 and I hadn't gotten married.

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so speeding right along, um I met him, married him, divorced him within the space of about
a year.

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um Yes, Witch was a lot.

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I was still Mormon at the time, um throughout that entire thing.

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And about four months after I filed for divorce,

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I, my shelf broke and somebody started saying some history things to me about Joseph Smith
and about Emma.

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And I read DNC 132 and really started like looking at polygamy and was like, Oh, there is
like it at the time I still believed in God because like, I feel like it's a kind of a

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step by step thing where you like figure out your pieces.

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And some people do like end up believing in God, Witch is beautiful and awesome for them.

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um I have a lot of other beliefs Witch are all over the place, Witch is really, really
fun.

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But, so we'll get there.

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um And so, yeah.

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And so my shelf broke really, really hard.

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um I had gotten divorced and like my work life was falling apart and um I found out the
church was in true within about four months.

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So, and I was, it was in the middle of COVID.

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It was December, 2020 when this was um going on.

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So was kind of intense.

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um

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Yeah, yeah.

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a lot to happen in such a short amount of time as well as the time when the apocalypse
started in our in our world.

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oh

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great.

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And like, it was it was it was very, traumatizing.

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And like, I feel like I was kind of in shock for a while after that.

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And like, my work life felt bigger actually at the time than the church and the divorce,
Witch was kind of an interesting thing, like looking back on it.

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I'm like, okay, but actually, the other things were bigger.

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It's just this one.

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Yeah, it just was really kind of insane.

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But um,

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Fast, like I deconstructed over the course of that year and just like tearing different
things apart, I stopped going to church.

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I had a panic attack the first time I bought a tank top, Witch was fun.

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ah

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Aww.

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Yeah, I remember like walking into savers and just like looking at like the tank tops and
just yeah, having an anxiety attack in the middle of savers and just going like, okay,

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this is not okay.

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um And then I kind of started working through a bunch of things, but I felt like this

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It was interesting because I feel like there's been a lot of different stages with this
journey because there were times where I felt like nothing mattered at all, like period,

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like nothing, nothing mattered.

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And the kind of nothing mattered where it was the spare nothing mattered.

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Cause there's a couple of different kinds of when nothing matters.

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There's the nothing matters.

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Yay, it's fine.

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can, know, like, well, if you know, we're on a rock in the middle of space, nothing
matters.

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So you can create whatever.

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And then there's the nothing matters that is.

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depressive and it was different.

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And so there were, and there were a lot of different stages.

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I experimented with like some fun psychedelic, can I say that?

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Like psychedelic.

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psychedelics.

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Yeah, we're we're we're currently getting ready to interview some some people locally here
that do psychedelics for healing.

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And it didn't interview with them, but we're going to actually redo the interview and do
some sessions with them.

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So psychedelics and healing, it's a great option for people who really need it.

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So I'm I'm all for it.

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So that really, really helped.

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And it also, like, it was an interesting thing to leave the church, because I was super
in.

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I was like one of those, like, BYU mission was like in despair with the fact that I
couldn't get married because of how important that is in it.

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I, you know, was working in like homeschool land.

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I mean, just, I mean, I wanted to be good.

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And like that, I wanted to...

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follow God and that was like the most important thing.

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And like to have that disappear was a lot.

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And so it was a lot.

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It was a lot.

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like, and it's been interesting, like trying to pull myself together because it has been,
I mean, it's been funny because like even in the past two weeks, I've been like, oh,

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deconstructing like another piece because even when like, like I, you know how

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at for me, it felt like when I first left the church, it felt like in the first like month
or three months that it had been so long.

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It felt so long since I'd left the church because it was so present and so big.

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And it was like, my goodness, this is huge.

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And now that I've been out for four years, I'm like, my goodness, I have like barely been
out.

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even though, like, I mean,

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that would be considered like a newborn baby out in the world, right?

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That wasn't that long ago.

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It wasn't that long ago.

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But like when I first got out, was like, oh my goodness, like just like a week.

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It was like, oh my word, like to not wear garments to, I mean, the first time I tried
coffee, went to an ex-Mormon meetup and I didn't even get coffee because I was like so

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scared of getting coffee.

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And then after the ex-Mormon meetup, I went through the drive-through because it was like
a drive-through coffee place and I got a coffee and I was like, this is what they've been

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hiding from me.

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and how much I.

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thing, something that the rest of the world would look at and say, yeah, coffee.

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That's how I wake up my day every, you know, cold struggle.

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It's totally fine.

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I was wine at dinner, you know.

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absolutely like all of these different things and I traveled before and I done all of
these things before because that's who I was as a person uh but I hadn't experienced so

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many things because I was trying to be a Mormon good girl yeah around Europe Witch is
hilarious when I was 28 but like yeah yeah I've always wanted to travel I've always wanted

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to be like when I

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I have this thing in my brain while I've been deconstructing all of this, where when I was
12, I wanted to be this homeschool mom with 12 kids, blah, blah, because that is what I

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was taught was the important thing for me to be.

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But when I look back and I think of when I was six, when I was six, I wanted to just
travel around the United States in an RV with a girl child.

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There wasn't a husband, there wasn't a spouse, there wasn't a partner, but having somebody
with me kind of a thing.

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And now,

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what I am doing is traveling, is international, is building out and going a bunch of
different places.

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And so it's been kind of this really interesting thing to be like, okay, what does bring
me joy?

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What do I really want to be?

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Because the thing, yeah, I'm a little bit like a little all over the place.

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I apologize.

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know like podcast.

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That's okay, we're just on this journey with you.

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I'm just imagining you and a lot of people, because my heart goes out to people who are
that deeply ingrained in a culture or even a religion that you don't know any different,

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you're told this is how to live.

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I see it as like almost being buried in mud.

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So deep, you don't know any different and the mud feels safe, right?

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It feels like deep down in there, at least you have

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the mud around you.

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You're secure.

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You know what to expect.

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So it makes sense, then to like finally like somehow climb yourself out of the mud and
then be like, now what?

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I'm just imagining how that must have been for you and for so many people.

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I mean, I'm in this world too, knowing and working with people who are in that state and
that is such a hard place and also such a beautiful place.

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Yeah, I love that metaphor.

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Because like, I mean, there's the whole like Plato's cave metaphor, but the one that
you're describing, I feel like is so much deeper because you're, you're buried, you're

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buried, you're safe.

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And considering how much of this culture um is about death, and you don't really realize
how much of it is about until after you get out.

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And then you're like, my goodness, this is, it's, yeah, it's all about death.

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And so it's,

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ridiculous, Witch is funny because like that is one thing that people won't think about.

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um Intel, yeah.

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So um all of these different things, I'd wanted to travel all of this and I left the
school that I was working at after about two and a half years.

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Yeah, and I went to, I'd fallen in love with Austin, Texas.

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So I actually ended up.

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in Austin, Texas for a year.

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I house sat my way around Austin, Texas using the Trusted Housetaters app and just like
literally stayed in other people's homes and took care of their pets for an entire year.

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ah was, I was recovering a little bit because like I had gotten so burned out and so like,
I mean, between the church and my job and all of these different things, I just, yeah.

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didn't really know what to do with myself.

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And then about a year and a half ago, realized that, or I'd known for a very long time
that I wanted to live abroad.

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If I hadn't been in the church, would have um taught abroad in my twenties.

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But because there was so much focus on get married, get married, get married.

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And I went on a church before the age changed.

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So I was like,

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23, 24, Witch is ancient at BYU kind of a thing.

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I feel like I could like do that anymore.

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Cause like you're supposed to get married and I was already like a crone.

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And it's funny cause I like feel so much younger than I ever have in my life.

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And I'm much older than I was back then.

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it.

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It's that old, you know, that belief that we are the crone, but we're also the maiden and
we're the mother.

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We're all of those things all the time.

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Absolutely, absolutely.

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so it's been interesting because one of the things that I realized also leaving all of
this was like how much more spiritual that I could get and that I felt after leaving the

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church.

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And that has come and gone a little bit.

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Like I've had it and then it goes away and then it comes back.

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But it kind of depends on, it depends on me a little bit more.

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And it depends on like, I mean, so I did.

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I got the teaching English as a second language certificate and I already have about
eight, nine years of experience teaching.

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And I, to answer the question about Dubai, I got on, I was looking for a job last May
actually.

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And I found a job that was in a micro school, Witch I had experience in, in Dubai and that
wanted eight years of experience.

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And I was like, that actually completely fits all of the things that I've done.

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and I've like put on Shakespeare festivals and like all of these different kinds of
things.

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And I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna do that.

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And so I applied and I got an interview that night.

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um And I got the job within three weeks, Witch was insane.

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And it was insane.

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I also around that time,

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fell in love for the very first time.

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And so it was kind of this mix of like devastating with, yeah.

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And so, cause I ended up, yeah, leaving them and coming out to Dubai.

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Cause I like, I needed to.

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Yeah.

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Oh my God.

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how amazing.

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Yeah, it's been really, it's been interesting because like, I mean, I love Dubai and
things.

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When are you publishing this?

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weeks from now.

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Okay, um, sorry.

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I so I am probably going to be leaving Dubai and by probably going to be leaving Dubai I
am but I haven't put that out yet.

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So that's why I yeah.

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Yeah.

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The path that is laid out for you that will unfold.

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Take you where you're meant to go next, right?

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That's the thing, because I have loved divide, but I've also realized that I don't want to
be a teacher.

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um And Witch has been a really interesting thing.

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So I became a teacher on accident due to the whole going to school to get married and then
not getting married, but having an English degree and not knowing what to do with it kind

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of a thing.

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I have always wanted to be a writer, but you do need to generally speaking have a job as
well as be a writer to become a writer at first, at least.

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At least that's what it's, you know, I'm working on that.

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um Right now I actually have a couple of gigs that I am working on developing with my
writer and all of these things.

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So yeah, so I'm going to be leaving.

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um I'm going to be going, currently the plan is to be going to Spain and to be learning
Spanish, to be figuring some things out there.

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And then from then on, I'm planning on getting a couple of master's degrees in Europe.

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So it's kind of this, I'm going after what I wanted when I was younger.

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that I didn't feel like I could fit, Witch is really kind of amazing.

216
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Okay.

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00:16:35,418 --> 00:16:37,980
not knowing your story before now.

218
00:16:38,158 --> 00:16:48,910
And I just have to kind of outline a lot of the healing work that I do is in cycles,
cycles of seasons, cycles of the moon, cycles of our lives.

219
00:16:48,910 --> 00:16:57,696
And you're describing what is so perfectly lined up with even just the cycle of here in
the Northern Hemisphere, we're going through spring, right?

220
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And you talk about like this time of your life, Witch kind of blew up for you.

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I mean, it really,

222
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blew up in a lot of crazy, really difficult ways.

223
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Looking back on it, you may be like, thank goodness that happened.

224
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It was super hard to have gone through it.

225
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I call those like mini deaths, right?

226
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We're going through like an equal death.

227
00:17:19,156 --> 00:17:21,506
I felt like I died so many times.

228
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I, and part of you has to die in order for that to reverse.

229
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So that's like your wintering season.

230
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It's the time where you're going through that dark night of the soul.

231
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The parts of you that are like, listen, this is all I've ever known.

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It might've made me feel safe or in control in some way, but I'm super not digging it.

233
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I'm not like into all of this.

234
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This doesn't feel right to me.

235
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This feels like constriction and restriction from what I really want.

236
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And then there had to be this like blow everything up moment.

237
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mean, marriage and faith and way of life, all of those things just kind of one by one were
like, not that, not that, not that.

238
00:18:04,248 --> 00:18:07,669
It's that had to happen for you in such a short amount of time.

239
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That is so rough.

240
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But now you're in this like amazing rebirth time where real true self gets to be born from
all of that.

241
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the germination of it, the fertilization of the soil from that death is now coming out
into this new cycle.

242
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And you just are like this amazing flower.

243
00:18:31,578 --> 00:18:33,879
You talk about falling in love for the first time.

244
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I mean, what's more springtime Twitter-painted and like, this is who I really am.

245
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And this is what really aligns with who I'm coming.

246
00:18:46,380 --> 00:18:51,433
And even deciding that maybe teaching was not really like it served a purpose for you.

247
00:18:51,433 --> 00:19:00,577
can definitely attest to that because I have been and am still in some ways a teacher, but
I could never go back.

248
00:19:00,818 --> 00:19:01,808
Well, never say never.

249
00:19:01,808 --> 00:19:08,612
But I mean, I choose not to go back to education because I'm like, I've grown from that.

250
00:19:08,612 --> 00:19:10,373
That's who I was.

251
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This is who I'm becoming.

252
00:19:12,204 --> 00:19:15,852
And then aligning yourself with like, wait, I'm a writer.

253
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This is who I am.

254
00:19:17,153 --> 00:19:20,104
This is where I need my path to go next.

255
00:19:20,265 --> 00:19:32,092
Which brings us to what piqued my interest when I found you online and I'm like, we need
to chat is the book witch because you know, witchy stuff is really kind of becoming a

256
00:19:32,493 --> 00:19:34,414
popular fad right now.

257
00:19:34,414 --> 00:19:40,298
Unless of course we get ostracized and there becomes this new age of witch hunts, Witch
may happen.

258
00:19:41,314 --> 00:19:42,925
So I've already put it out there.

259
00:19:42,925 --> 00:19:45,126
well, I'll be the first one on the chopping block.

260
00:19:45,126 --> 00:19:45,676
It's fine.

261
00:19:45,676 --> 00:19:55,380
uh So when the first time that like my producer had started introducing me in networking
groups here locally, she's like, this is our local witch.

262
00:19:55,821 --> 00:20:01,804
And I was a little uncomfortable with the title at first because I'm like, what is this
Mormon culture?

263
00:20:01,804 --> 00:20:07,186
Even those who aren't Mormon and just are here in Utah, what are they going to think if
they hear that?

264
00:20:07,266 --> 00:20:21,798
So want you to just kind of talk to me about where we come to your relationship with that
word, Witch, and then how you're using it to maybe own that a little bit.

265
00:20:22,190 --> 00:20:23,010
Absolutely.

266
00:20:23,010 --> 00:20:32,850
So I came up with the title, The Traveling Book, Witch maybe like at least it was probably
about a year and a half ago or two years ago.

267
00:20:32,850 --> 00:20:41,610
And it's funny because I haven't been, it's one of those like, you know how you discover a
name sometimes that you don't like, you know, it's you, but you haven't quite like

268
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blossomed into it yet.

269
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And you're like still figuring out some aspects.

270
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Absolutely.

271
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And so like, it's something that I've had, have like, I have a sub stack.

272
00:20:50,754 --> 00:20:53,837
called the traveling book, Witch that I am working on posts there.

273
00:20:53,837 --> 00:20:57,981
am posting on weekly right now and developing that.

274
00:20:57,981 --> 00:21:02,815
And my TikTok is also the traveling book, Witch, and so I'm like putting those things
together.

275
00:21:02,815 --> 00:21:08,660
The reason book, Witch I, I've loved books my entire life.

276
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I have loved, loved, loved books my entire life.

277
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I was, I have read and reread.

278
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I mean, I joke sometimes that I've read Lord of the Rings.

279
00:21:17,390 --> 00:21:19,291
15 times and it's not really a joke.

280
00:21:19,291 --> 00:21:28,234
um I've read every book that Ella Montgomery, the writer of Anna Green Gables ever wrote
that I could find my hands on.

281
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I studied English in college.

282
00:21:31,055 --> 00:21:33,176
I've read tons of Terry Pratchett.

283
00:21:33,176 --> 00:21:40,739
just reading was like everybody knew that I read and also wrote.

284
00:21:40,739 --> 00:21:46,422
I didn't write as much when I was younger and this has been an interesting thing that I
realized recently.

285
00:21:46,422 --> 00:21:47,622
um

286
00:21:48,703 --> 00:21:50,844
I've been working on a book.

287
00:21:52,286 --> 00:21:55,469
I have been working on a book since I was 12 years old.

288
00:21:55,469 --> 00:22:03,255
I am currently working on, I've got about 80,000 words and I have a whole bunch of other
books that I'm also like mapping out, but I have this book that I started when I was 12

289
00:22:03,255 --> 00:22:16,110
and I don't think I could finish it until after I left the church because the message of
it is about people who are stuck in fairy tales and m

290
00:22:16,110 --> 00:22:19,010
they're in a world where fairy tales, they're kind of innocuous.

291
00:22:19,010 --> 00:22:20,610
They're kind of like, this is just life.

292
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This is how it is.

293
00:22:21,490 --> 00:22:22,390
We all know that.

294
00:22:22,390 --> 00:22:30,770
Like if your name happens to be Eleanor and you happen to have like a sick mother, like,
I'm so sorry, she's going to die and you're going to become a Cinderella.

295
00:22:30,770 --> 00:22:34,970
Like that's just like, that's the patterning people know that that is going to be life.

296
00:22:34,970 --> 00:22:39,890
Like if you have 12 siblings, I'm so sorry, this is what is going to happen to you, kind
of a thing.

297
00:22:40,250 --> 00:22:42,630
And I started writing that when I was 12 years old.

298
00:22:42,630 --> 00:22:43,714
And then,

299
00:22:43,714 --> 00:22:49,519
when I left the church and I started analyzing it and I was like, oh, it's because of
myth.

300
00:22:49,519 --> 00:22:58,186
Because the thing that fascinates me and the realization of what I was about a couple of
weeks ago is I had this thought of I am a writer of new myths.

301
00:22:58,787 --> 00:23:00,248
I'm a writer of new myths.

302
00:23:00,248 --> 00:23:11,577
The things we have so many different stories and so many different narratives and some of
them are good, but a lot of them are keeping us like in these ideas, in these patterns

303
00:23:11,577 --> 00:23:12,726
that are

304
00:23:12,726 --> 00:23:17,670
really necessarily good for us.

305
00:23:17,806 --> 00:23:26,717
The story that I had in my head of like, oh I'm like the life path that I'm supposed to be
on is to like go to BYU, get married, have a million kids.

306
00:23:26,717 --> 00:23:28,529
Like that is the thing that you're supposed to do.

307
00:23:28,529 --> 00:23:37,286
And that prevented me from living authentically, from living the life that I'm absolutely
drawn to, absolutely want to.

308
00:23:37,286 --> 00:23:40,689
And I see that in women over and over and over and over again.

309
00:23:40,689 --> 00:23:42,570
And a lot of that is from

310
00:23:42,860 --> 00:23:50,095
the patriarchal patterning that we've been taught in numerous ways, not just from the
Mormon church, but from so many different stories.

311
00:23:50,095 --> 00:23:53,547
Like I remember watching, uh I love media.

312
00:23:53,547 --> 00:24:04,635
And so when I talk about myself as a book, Witch it is because when I watch something,
when I read something, when I look at a story, it is in this analytical and pattern and

313
00:24:04,635 --> 00:24:11,900
myth-based way of this is what the concept of this, this is what this is saying at a root
level.

314
00:24:12,338 --> 00:24:18,453
And that is what I love to find when I am going uh through these things.

315
00:24:18,453 --> 00:24:32,925
And so as I am deciding that, I am going to be writing, I'm going to be writing out that
book and writing out another book about a whole bunch of different like ancient gods, or

316
00:24:32,925 --> 00:24:34,877
waking up and discovering themselves.

317
00:24:34,877 --> 00:24:36,588
I'm going to...

318
00:24:36,588 --> 00:24:47,606
write about magical universities, I'm going to write queer stories, I'm going to like all
of these different things that I'm realizing that I need and that I've started doing um in

319
00:24:47,606 --> 00:24:49,487
my life as I am building this out.

320
00:24:49,487 --> 00:24:59,154
I'm also like ghostwriting for a couple of different people and am accepting like more
things as I'm ghostwriting and creating these different things.

321
00:24:59,154 --> 00:25:04,406
I also have realized that I'm pretty good at helping people like find

322
00:25:04,406 --> 00:25:13,174
their stories and see them like when I'm talking to people and just like helping people to
like recognize their own stories and who they are.

323
00:25:13,174 --> 00:25:26,376
So when I call myself the Traveling Book Witch is something that I am and something that I
am growing into currently my sub stack is me analyzing what it took to go from a super

324
00:25:26,376 --> 00:25:31,110
conservative Mormon homeschooler to a

325
00:25:31,754 --> 00:25:34,858
atheist, pagan, liberal, queer, witch.

326
00:25:38,181 --> 00:25:40,345
We are all here for that.

327
00:25:41,354 --> 00:25:47,419
And I'm just going step by step of like what that took, all of these analyzing all of
these things.

328
00:25:47,419 --> 00:25:53,103
And I mentioned before like recognizing part of the reason that I hadn't been writing as
much.

329
00:25:54,265 --> 00:26:03,062
got, it's funny now, cause I think of it as a spell, but I got my patriarchal blessing
very shortly after I realized that I needed and wanted to be a writer.

330
00:26:03,062 --> 00:26:07,456
And I had this fire and this passion in my soul.

331
00:26:07,716 --> 00:26:09,750
And I knew

332
00:26:09,750 --> 00:26:16,432
knew that God would also recognize that fire and passion in my soul because I was taught
that he cared about us.

333
00:26:16,432 --> 00:26:20,610
And I was taught that like, oh, we're here to fight for him and all of those things.

334
00:26:20,610 --> 00:26:28,135
And then I went to get my patriarchal blessing and it, I would never have said these words
when I was younger, but it was lame.

335
00:26:28,135 --> 00:26:33,497
It was incredibly, incredibly boring, cookie cutter lame.

336
00:26:33,497 --> 00:26:37,974
was not, it was long, it was long, but it was long in the way that like,

337
00:26:37,974 --> 00:26:47,901
a not well done chat GPT can be long where it was all filler words and all like, and all
about.

338
00:26:47,901 --> 00:26:51,463
Yeah, it wasn't anything personal, anything real.

339
00:26:52,845 --> 00:26:58,529
But I realized that like I took that upon myself so deeply, so much.

340
00:26:58,529 --> 00:27:02,312
Because it said the words at the proper time you will meet a man that you will love with
all of your heart.

341
00:27:02,312 --> 00:27:05,548
And I heard those words and was like, what if I miss it?

342
00:27:05,548 --> 00:27:06,279
What if I miss it?

343
00:27:06,279 --> 00:27:07,539
What if I'm not in the right place?

344
00:27:07,539 --> 00:27:09,262
Like at the proper time, what does that even mean?

345
00:27:09,262 --> 00:27:12,725
And I like super analyze that and like, and it was so, so important.

346
00:27:12,725 --> 00:27:13,155
And it's funny.

347
00:27:13,155 --> 00:27:16,238
Cause now I'm like, no, I am not getting married.

348
00:27:16,238 --> 00:27:18,931
That's no, that's not a thing that's going to happen.

349
00:27:18,931 --> 00:27:20,833
Or if it does, it's not going to be.

350
00:27:20,833 --> 00:27:21,173
Yeah.

351
00:27:21,173 --> 00:27:22,694
uh

352
00:27:22,738 --> 00:27:34,462
And for those who are uh listening and maybe not sure what we're talking about, the
Patriarchal Blessing is a certain patriarch of the church who has the authority to give a

353
00:27:34,462 --> 00:27:49,186
special blessing that you get once in your life, usually when you're very young, and
basically maps out your life with the prophecy of what it is you are meant to do or be.

354
00:27:49,698 --> 00:27:50,518
or whatever that is.

355
00:27:50,518 --> 00:27:55,070
uh I know I waited until I was after uh I was married to get my patriarchal blessing.

356
00:27:55,070 --> 00:28:00,141
Cause I don't know, I just wasn't like ready until I felt ready or whatever that is.

357
00:28:00,341 --> 00:28:10,304
So yeah, and I, you know, we've talked on this podcast before episodes of like how curses
or spells can take part and play in your life.

358
00:28:10,544 --> 00:28:15,862
That can be one of those things that's like, it the, is it that it's a blessing?

359
00:28:15,862 --> 00:28:23,837
or a curse or a spell, or is it that it's like a self-fulfilling prophecy, you get told
like, you're gonna do these things.

360
00:28:23,837 --> 00:28:27,011
And so then you are like, well, then that's what I'm gonna look for.

361
00:28:27,011 --> 00:28:30,374
And then that's the energy that you bring to your life.

362
00:28:30,374 --> 00:28:31,414
So yeah.

363
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:33,031
Absolutely, absolutely.

364
00:28:33,031 --> 00:28:42,147
I mean, I I love that so much of witchiness is spicy psychology and recognizing your own
effect in what you're doing.

365
00:28:42,147 --> 00:28:47,081
And I'm like learning that more and more all of the time, Witch is lovely.

366
00:28:48,282 --> 00:29:00,090
with the witchiness also, like I do, I mean, I love, I want to know, and I study more of
like my own heritage and Celtic and like,

367
00:29:00,672 --> 00:29:05,873
I'm working on studying like the morrigan and different.

368
00:29:05,873 --> 00:29:06,974
Yes.

369
00:29:07,316 --> 00:29:08,248
Yes.

370
00:29:08,248 --> 00:29:09,679
Love that.

371
00:29:09,679 --> 00:29:21,336
And you know, as you're talking about myth, obviously, like as a Celtic folk, Witch myself
love the mythology and love rewriting, I love that you come at it like, why can't I be a

372
00:29:21,336 --> 00:29:23,118
myth writer too?

373
00:29:23,118 --> 00:29:27,429
I am the ancestors of my descendants.

374
00:29:27,429 --> 00:29:31,431
And so therefore you're like, they'll look to me for those myths.

375
00:29:32,572 --> 00:29:36,046
for the listeners who listened to my episode,

376
00:29:36,046 --> 00:29:43,566
couple episodes back where I retold the story of Bledioweth, Witch is a Celtic folklore
from Welsh mythology.

377
00:29:45,086 --> 00:29:55,866
What you're saying is so aligned with her story because I think when they wrote her story
down in 1100 AD, know, when they wrote the Mabinagi, they were probably writing it as

378
00:29:55,866 --> 00:29:56,678
like,

379
00:29:56,826 --> 00:29:59,077
this woman is the villain of the story.

380
00:29:59,077 --> 00:30:01,868
She didn't fall in line with what she was supposed to do.

381
00:30:01,868 --> 00:30:06,230
She didn't stay with her husband, she was supposed to marry him.

382
00:30:06,230 --> 00:30:09,251
She was made of flowers for him.

383
00:30:09,346 --> 00:30:18,115
And then she, you know, we could say modern day language, she cheated on him and found a
lover that's so evil, right?

384
00:30:18,115 --> 00:30:24,526
When in fact, if you just reconstruct the mythology a little bit or

385
00:30:24,526 --> 00:30:27,247
come at it from a little bit different perspective.

386
00:30:27,247 --> 00:30:33,450
You can see that Bladya was a character who was made to be married to somebody.

387
00:30:33,450 --> 00:30:35,881
She didn't maybe want to be married.

388
00:30:35,881 --> 00:30:36,661
Nobody asked her.

389
00:30:36,661 --> 00:30:39,212
Nobody asked her if she wanted to be married to this guy.

390
00:30:39,212 --> 00:30:44,755
So when she found someone she fell in love with, she wrote her own destiny.

391
00:30:44,946 --> 00:30:49,797
And that is so powerful, especially when you're talking about it.

392
00:30:49,797 --> 00:30:52,226
From your perspective, I had this

393
00:30:52,226 --> 00:30:56,028
patriarchal blessing was told this is how my life was supposed to work out.

394
00:30:56,069 --> 00:31:04,226
And then when I was reborn into my new life, I decided for myself what my path would be.

395
00:31:04,226 --> 00:31:07,907
I'm not just made for other people's expectations of me.

396
00:31:07,907 --> 00:31:15,562
I'm not just made for this religion, this marriage, these 12 kids that I'm supposed to
have.

397
00:31:15,566 --> 00:31:21,802
know that's not every Mormon woman's desire, but it was taught to me to be.

398
00:31:21,802 --> 00:31:32,905
It is very much a cultural thing to expect that of everyone that like we all are just
supposed to fall in line with what their idea of life is supposed to be like.

399
00:31:32,905 --> 00:31:36,366
What does it mean to be a faithful, good person?

400
00:31:36,587 --> 00:31:41,018
And that's very much ingrained in expectation and all of that.

401
00:31:41,018 --> 00:31:44,529
So totally understand that whether you want 12 kids or not.

402
00:31:44,529 --> 00:31:46,750
And some people do want 12 kids, so more power to them.

403
00:31:46,750 --> 00:31:47,770
That's great.

404
00:31:48,376 --> 00:31:49,776
Yeah, good for them.

405
00:31:50,442 --> 00:31:56,258
So forging, you know, the myth is just uh kind of that play.

406
00:31:56,258 --> 00:32:01,593
Well, what I'm hearing you say too, and that some of the books that you're wanting to
write is that play with what's destiny.

407
00:32:01,593 --> 00:32:03,034
What am I destined for?

408
00:32:03,034 --> 00:32:12,002
But what am I also the part that I play is that I choose what is the destiny I forge for
myself.

409
00:32:12,462 --> 00:32:25,202
Yeah, because a lot of it, I mean, I look at so many of the things that are happening in
our world and all of the things, and a lot of it is based on the myths that you believe

410
00:32:25,202 --> 00:32:36,702
and the things that you believe about what a woman is for, the things that you believe
what a person is, shapes a lot of the way that you treat other people and that you create

411
00:32:36,702 --> 00:32:37,342
a society.

412
00:32:37,342 --> 00:32:42,666
And I want to help figure out

413
00:32:42,666 --> 00:32:46,628
what then, and when I say new myths, a lot of it is like really, really, really old myths.

414
00:32:46,628 --> 00:32:53,672
Like I love a When God Was a Woman and how it talks about, yes, my goodness.

415
00:32:53,672 --> 00:33:04,598
Oh my, like, realizing just like what it was like when we weren't worshiping a patriarch
of God and what that looks like.

416
00:33:04,598 --> 00:33:11,778
And I'm so curious about like the more people creating their own and understanding that
there are

417
00:33:11,778 --> 00:33:15,000
different ways of living than what there is right now.

418
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:23,156
And however idealistic that might be, it's something that I wanna like write about and
help people see different perspectives on.

419
00:33:23,308 --> 00:33:24,158
Yes.

420
00:33:24,158 --> 00:33:34,583
And stories and storytelling, at least for me personally, have always been such a powerful
way to get those ideas to people.

421
00:33:34,583 --> 00:33:39,125
I mean, I feel like people can read something and they can go, okay, yeah, like, all
right.

422
00:33:39,125 --> 00:33:41,546
So maybe God is a woman, cool.

423
00:33:41,546 --> 00:33:51,790
But when a story is told in such a way that it takes you through the emotions, through the
ideas, living it and

424
00:33:52,758 --> 00:33:54,639
at least for me, but I'm also a Pisces.

425
00:33:54,639 --> 00:34:00,792
So that's just like how I see the world, but it's like, yeah, that's it's, it's just
powerful.

426
00:34:00,792 --> 00:34:06,246
And I love um just to connect with you a little bit.

427
00:34:06,246 --> 00:34:07,466
We're so alike.

428
00:34:07,466 --> 00:34:08,778
I can already tell.

429
00:34:08,778 --> 00:34:21,644
I have a story I wrote when I was 12 as well that I've always like held onto as like
someday that'll be ready to rewrite and to, know, to work on, but like that's,

430
00:34:22,247 --> 00:34:25,453
Um, it's almost like you have to.

431
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:36,588
invite the spirit of your inner child, of the part of you that wrote that story from the
beginning, that had that like passion and that drive to tell a story.

432
00:34:36,588 --> 00:34:46,857
And then like partner it with the Crohn's wisdom of your life experiences and how you've
come at that story from a different way.

433
00:34:46,857 --> 00:34:49,669
And maybe it becomes.

434
00:34:50,584 --> 00:34:51,736
Something, yeah.

435
00:34:51,736 --> 00:34:54,957
something genius, something that will be out in the world.

436
00:34:54,957 --> 00:34:57,102
And I'm excited for that.

437
00:34:57,624 --> 00:34:59,170
Absolutely.

438
00:35:00,734 --> 00:35:03,437
Well, this has been an amazing conversation.

439
00:35:03,437 --> 00:35:09,363
I don't know about anyone else listening, but I feel like we've just made best friends.

440
00:35:09,363 --> 00:35:16,990
um before we wrap up, let people know where they can find you, how they can connect with
you.

441
00:35:18,112 --> 00:35:31,191
Yeah, I have a I have the blog that I mentioned um on sub stack the traveling book, Witch
and I'm currently writing about uh that more my experience I am going to be writing about

442
00:35:31,191 --> 00:35:42,699
how to travel for the very first time because I've been realizing as I've been talking to
some of my friends that they don't know how to do a lot of the things that I now take for

443
00:35:42,699 --> 00:35:43,060
granted.

444
00:35:43,060 --> 00:35:46,658
So how to like leave the country and talking about

445
00:35:46,658 --> 00:35:49,089
different kinds of visas and all those kinds of things.

446
00:35:49,089 --> 00:35:51,538
So I am gonna start doing that pretty soon.

447
00:35:51,538 --> 00:36:02,932
I have a couple of different books that I am working on writing, like the Heretics Guide
to Happiness and some fun things like that, as well as my fairy tale books.

448
00:36:03,253 --> 00:36:10,459
I have a TikTok right now um that is the traveling book, Witch that I am also growing.

449
00:36:10,459 --> 00:36:14,662
And I also, I don't know if this is something, um

450
00:36:15,106 --> 00:36:25,034
Yeah, I also have a Facebook group that I'm building called the Unbound Collective, Witch
is like a business group for women that I just started with to help business.

451
00:36:25,426 --> 00:36:25,820
yeah.

452
00:36:25,820 --> 00:36:37,004
It's like I accidentally got into a Mormon women's business group and realized that we
need more of the not the like I'm going to mentor you to become something, but more of

453
00:36:37,004 --> 00:36:40,022
like let's make connections and oh, I need.

454
00:36:40,022 --> 00:36:49,446
somebody for this kind of position or I know somebody who does like creating that kind of
interconnected webness because that's the way that I interconnected webness that is not a

455
00:36:49,446 --> 00:36:50,256
word.

456
00:36:50,317 --> 00:36:50,990
But like.

457
00:36:50,990 --> 00:36:54,690
You heard it here first folks.

458
00:36:55,350 --> 00:36:56,750
Love it.

459
00:36:56,888 --> 00:37:04,013
But just because I see, and we know how like so many men get jobs simply because of who
they know.

460
00:37:04,013 --> 00:37:15,643
And we need to build out these connections between, especially like as ex-Mormon women, a
lot of the time we've lost a lot of financial, any kind of thing.

461
00:37:15,643 --> 00:37:17,314
We've lost a lot of family.

462
00:37:17,314 --> 00:37:19,046
We've lost a lot of connections.

463
00:37:19,046 --> 00:37:20,627
A lot of us have gotten divorced.

464
00:37:20,627 --> 00:37:21,798
There's a whole bunch of different pieces.

465
00:37:21,798 --> 00:37:23,029
So I'm growing that.

466
00:37:23,029 --> 00:37:24,320
um

467
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:26,168
It has about 30 people in it.

468
00:37:26,168 --> 00:37:29,038
So we are going forward with that.

469
00:37:29,038 --> 00:37:29,539
Awesome.

470
00:37:29,539 --> 00:37:31,270
need to get, yeah, build that up.

471
00:37:31,270 --> 00:37:32,141
Cause you're totally right.

472
00:37:32,141 --> 00:37:42,880
think the culture, it comes from a lot of like the only thing we know if we've been raised
in the Mormon culture or, um or even in Utah culture is like an MLM.

473
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,133
Like how can I sell to you?

474
00:37:46,133 --> 00:37:55,861
How can you join me in what I'm doing rather than, and this is what I've been working on
with the Daybreak Network in business communities is like, we need to build relationships

475
00:37:55,861 --> 00:37:56,674
with people.

476
00:37:56,674 --> 00:38:01,197
We need to have relationships with people and build community first.

477
00:38:01,197 --> 00:38:03,498
It's about like, do you have a friend?

478
00:38:03,498 --> 00:38:09,321
Do you have a friend that does something that could be useful to anyone and then refer
people to that friend?

479
00:38:09,321 --> 00:38:12,843
And this is how we begin, right?

480
00:38:12,843 --> 00:38:26,400
And I have been told time and time again that that's how we fight or resist against some
of the oppressive systems that we in America are currently experiencing.

481
00:38:27,118 --> 00:38:29,458
is that we just need to, we need to start with community.

482
00:38:29,458 --> 00:38:33,580
We need to start with putting relationships and people over profits.

483
00:38:33,620 --> 00:38:37,641
And so I feel like it's an act of resistance to be able to build those communities.

484
00:38:37,641 --> 00:38:42,943
So yes, let's connect there and head over to that Facebook group.

485
00:38:42,943 --> 00:38:50,745
If you're looking for something like that, that would be an amazing community to build,
especially all over the world, wherever you're at.

486
00:38:50,745 --> 00:38:53,726
You're in Dubai, you're over here in Utah.

487
00:38:54,879 --> 00:38:56,139
Absolutely.

488
00:38:56,290 --> 00:38:58,242
Well, thank you so much for joining me today.

489
00:38:58,242 --> 00:39:00,144
And it's been an amazing conversation.

490
00:39:00,144 --> 00:39:05,390
So I can't wait to see where you go next and to see all of those published works when they
come out.

491
00:39:05,390 --> 00:39:07,542
I'll be looking for them for sure.

492
00:39:07,778 --> 00:39:09,020
It has been lovely.

493
00:39:09,020 --> 00:39:11,155
Thank you so much for inviting me onto here.

494
00:39:11,155 --> 00:39:15,032
And it has been absolutely wonderful getting to talk to you and being here.

495
00:39:15,032 --> 00:39:17,197
I love everything that you're doing.

496
00:39:17,197 --> 00:39:18,378
It's so good.

497
00:39:18,542 --> 00:39:22,888
And if you're looking for any of those handles that she just mentioned, we are gonna put
them in the show notes.

498
00:39:22,888 --> 00:39:27,654
So look there if you want the specifics, you can get connected.